BoT Voice: TeamSpeak & Mumble Servers

[Dave]

Because when we tried discord before as a trial, we discussed it and there were no objections to going back to teamspeak. It was separate to the incident that followed.

I just want to raid with everyone who wants to raid, in the same voice chat. No one will dislike anyone based on what software we're on. Staying off will just lead to more drama.

Edit: this post was made before the previous post was edited. I have no intention of discussing this further as it will only lead to more drama. You are all my friends and I wish to raid with everyone.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Dave

[Fyria]

That's not really how it has been worded.

On 12/16/2018 at 12:04 PM, Kryton said:

Most people involved in the conversation wanted to move voice to Discord (which didn't happen because of your objections so we all went with you).

 

On 12/16/2018 at 12:04 PM, Kryton said:

Since then the raids have been done on TS so basically you got exactly what you wanted out of the whole thing.

 

We discussed the technicalities with the quality drop (which didn't bother most people anyway) and the desk arrangement/lag here on the sound and people suggested workarounds so it was possible to use Discord for voice instead, we haven't figured out a working workaround for it yet, but while my mic seems to cut out a lot, it doesn't make a difference on that front, so if it's easier for everyone else to use Discord, and the fact that we still use TS is purely my fault and causing aggravation with Mark (and anyone else), I'd rather not use it.

(Edit: post made before seeing Dave's edit)

[Fyria]

19 minutes ago, Dave said:

Edit: this post was made before the previous post was edited. I have no intention of discussing this further as it will only lead to more drama. You are all my friends and I wish to raid with everyone.

You're the one that just stepped in and insisted on using TS for the raid?

But yes, we can put this aside, I can see that my suggestion to use Discord tomorrow to avoid drama was probably just white noise to people here anyway and I'll assume that people will be on TS tomorrow then.

[Dave]

We have used TS for every raid since. I didn't step in and insist.

 

[Nacey]

We're using TS because the voice quality and latency is better, simple as that. That's how we decided what to use and that hasn't changed so I think we're all good.

[Gragneth]

Woooooo Raid! See you all on TS! 

[Fyria]

I was under the impression that it was because people were mostly indifferent, the quality seemed higher and it was logistically easier in terms of Todd and my desk setup to just use TS for raids , but since then it has become apparent there are people that do have an issue with it which wasn't expressed until much later and people feel forced off Discord voice and back onto TS to appease me. I wish this not to be the case and will try and find alternative provisions to make Discord voice work when I do have a working mic, but in the meantime I do not, so I would really rather take myself out of the firing line. I've backed away from stuff after last time, people can do whatever they want and it has been made clear that people want to use Discord voice, so I'd really rather not stand in the way of that either. I don't see to what end it's worth doing the raids on TS as a result.

[Nacey]

Nah, everyone is happy with TS except, I believe, Lou and I haven't seen her for weeks. I decided we'd continue to use TS because it sounds better and nobody has told me that's a problem so that's where we are. 

[Brynneth]

I don't think anyone actually deeply cares about what voice app we're using to raid with. The only reason that switching to Discord was ever mooted in the first place was because the server was already there and it seemed to a couple of people that it might be more (or no less) convenient for everyone to use, and especially for Todd to admin, than TS. Nobody expected or wanted the drama which blew up. Everyone just wants to have a nice game of Fantasy Elf Bullshit with their friends. 

[Kryton]

I've held off posting in here until now because I thought it would be way more dramatic to wait until an hour before the raid. That's a joke btw.

Raid is on TS and I have no problem with that. We tried Discord for voice as a way to combine comms but it didn't work for some people (lag/quality etc) so we revert back to TS. There are little groups who use Discord voice for things because they either don't notice or don't care about these issues which is fine but whole guild activities like tonight are on TS.

With that cleared up and behind us, can we all please can back to the very serious business of watching Sharp get pounded into a McDonalds burger patty by a big monkey who spent too long at the Russion olympic training camp? 🐒

[Sharp]

:(

[Fyria]

3 hours ago, Kryton said:

With that cleared up and behind us, can we all please can back to the very serious business of watching Sharp get pounded into a McDonalds burger patty by a big monkey who spent too long at the Russion olympic training camp? 🐒

Haha, what did I miss? 😂

Edit:

3 hours ago, Kryton said:

Raid is on TS and I have no problem with that. We tried Discord for voice as a way to combine comms but it didn't work for some people (lag/quality etc) so we revert back to TS. There are little groups who use Discord voice for things because they either don't notice or don't care about these issues which is fine but whole guild activities like tonight are on TS.

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Kryton]

So it's Sunday afternoon, it's about as far in the week from a raid night as I could reasonably be posting anything about chat programs which is why I'm not. I'm posting in here because this is the thread that the majority of the recent arguments have occurred and hence seems like as good a place as any to get it cleared up.

@FyriaI understand the last few months have been difficult for you. Conversations involving both of us have blown up into big arguments, regardless of intention, that have never really resolved and allowing them to sit and fester any longer seems counterproductive. The entire "Discord drama" that is still hanging around on several levels is a big part of this and I'm now at the stage where I feel there is a nervousness and tension in the guild which could go if we were to clear the air.

For my part, I have forgotten the majority of what was going on. Discussions/arguments were had, we moved on with Discord/TS/raiding/M+ or whatever as appropriate and that was the end of it. Aside from the initial feelings in the moment, I don't really let it bother me which is probably why I haven't posted anything until now. I also have far too much other crap (cue baby screaming as I type) going on in my head (must plan that audit for tomorrow) for these things to really stick.

I do understand though that it may not be the same on your side so I would like to apologise for any offence or hurt caused by what I have said. When I get annoyed I get blunt in my language, ask my clients (the idiots), and hence I can see how the intended message could be lost and offence caused.

I would like us (you, me, the guild as a whole) to move past all this and back to the open, inviting and friendly atmosphere BoT used to have. It would be great if you could join the guild on Discord (text I mean, not voice) as a large chunk of the old forum and guildchat traffic has moved over there and it is a shame you are missing it. The forum has it's place for arranging events or longer term discussion but Discord chat is great for randomly discussing wow patch changes, the drops in our chests or whatever WoW or other bullshit has popped into someones head in the middle of the work day.

[Fyria]

I've not been on the BoT discord for over a year, so there's no point in me being on the server, since a muted server seems to confuse people and I use the program for other servers, I've left it. 

Hope that's less confusing for you Mark.

[Kryton]

Crystal, thanks

[Sharp]

 

?

Edited April 27, 2020 by Sharp

[Kryton]

I don't think you really want to poke this Sarah.

[Dave]

I cannot believe this is still an issue, and I no longer have the time or the patience.

Goodbye

[Sharp]

Just now, Dave said:

 

Goodbye

Welcome!

[dangphat]

Wait I thought we were using zoom now?

[Gragneth]

16 hours ago, Fyria said:

I've not been on the BoT discord for over a year, so there's no point in me being on the server, since a muted server seems to confuse people and I use the program for other servers, I've left it. 

Hope that's less confusing for you Mark.

Really? What is this? Did you really think this through? 

This is just awful and disgusting. A terrible reply to the post above no matter what. I guess maybe some drama happened in game/TS yesterday but whatever it was this still does not seem a good way to go about things.  

Sorry to say that is it for me. Gonna pull all my characters from BoT. I left the classic server (and all the really awesome people there) because I was over reacting, saw myself turning bad and I didn't want to lash out at people pointlessly in a hurtful manner. Decided to come back to Talnivarr when it was simpler and less stressful. Now I am seeing you seemingly do what i tried to avoid myself. Not gonna give it a chance to reach me so I am just gonna distance myself.  

[Fyria]

It honestly saddens me that it has come to this after the events of last night's TS. We had great fun doing the lower level dungeons at the weekend with you and were in discussion about giving up trying for 15s since we're struggling a bit with them, and seeing whether a few people/alts would be interested in trying to do the 10s achievement at a chilled pace instead.

The message was in response to Mark's abrupt comments on TS last night at me over the matter and had nothing to do directly with the above post - this just seemed like the best place to post it. As Mark even points out, the whole situation "festered" because I wanted Mark to have a conversation with me directly (Todd suggested I stop responding to posts on the forum because it wasn't helping when I felt ganged up on with every post). There has been plenty of time for him to do so and to sort out, but he hasn't, so nothing has changed.

I never really removed myself from the BoT Discord server, yet never quite felt comfortable clicking into that server whilst I felt pushed away by Mark's attitude, and, he was very accusative of it last night because (and this has been mentioned in a previous comment a long time ago) I'm on a couple of other servers and with lockdown I've found that I've had to use it more (even though I'm not the biggest fan), which means I look active even though I'm not. 

Practically it doesn't make any difference to me whether I'm not on Discord or never open it, things are still the same, I still only find out the bits and pieces of going on from Todd if it seems important (i.e. dungeon groups etc), and it's never caused a problem - unless Mark ends up provoking me over it - a thing I still do not understand why he does in all honesty because it just brings this all up again.

I'm not sure what I should do to try and fix things, I don't want to see other people feel like they're being dragged into this, and I'm sorry if I've upset anyone, I don't want to lose friends unnecessarily over this.

I haven't decided what I'm going to do in terms of the guild yet, but was looking to try and see whether anyone wanted to just do a few chilled things sometime instead and I was hoping, like last weekend, if you'd be interested in doing some more fun tanking. with us and whoever wants to bring some alts.

I'm sorry to see you go Loz, if we can't figure things out I'm not sure I'll be sticking around much longer either.

[Nacey]

I'm going to reply to this properly as well but don't have time this second as need to write a quiz by tomorrow!

I'm going to lock this until tomorrow, if we can all take a day to calm down a bit (including Sarah, not trying to take sides here), I'll do my best to help sort things as well.

Thanks everyone.

[Nacey]

Okay, it's not going to be a long post. I will probably have more to add. To be honest I most wanted to avoid people rushing into this with emotions still running high. I would ask that people please don't camp the thread and spam replies. If someone has posted within a few hours maybe leave it for a bit and come back later and re-read before we all reply. I don't want to lock the thread but I don't think trying to have a back-and-forth on the forums is going to be productive or helpful.

So, a couple of things I want to add to Sarah's post because I'm sure Mark is confused about some bits of feels like they don't represent what really happened. Some of this is my fault. I have, as you can imagine, been a bit stuck in the middle of it, and I expect that people have mostly not talked to me about it because they think I will just take Sarah's side. I have tried not to do that, and I've told her when I thought she was being unreasonable, the same as I have to Mark. So, to clarify:

On 4/28/2020 at 8:40 PM, Fyria said:

As Mark even points out, the whole situation "festered" because I wanted Mark to have a conversation with me directly (Todd suggested I stop responding to posts on the forum because it wasn't helping when I felt ganged up on with every post). There has been plenty of time for him to do so and to sort out, but he hasn't, so nothing has changed.

This bit is my fault because I didn't communicate this properly to Mark. I did say to Sarah that replying on the forum in the original thread didn't go very well, and she recognised that as well. I said that I would get Mark to IM her directly so they could chat. I didn't do that properly. Looking back it's easy to say that I should have just done it. The truth is that I did what everyone else did which is that I waited a couple of days for the argument to die down and then I didn't want to provoke it again, I got distracted by work and other parts of life, and I didn't follow up properly. So this is on me because I made a promise to Sarah that I didn't keep. Mark and I did talk about it a couple of times, but I was just never very clear about the fact that talking directly would help. I looked back through some logs and I just did a bad job of this and so I apologise to both sides for that. I would ask that you don't take this out on each other.

On 4/28/2020 at 8:40 PM, Fyria said:

...I felt pushed away by Mark's attitude, and, he was very accusative of it last night...

I know Mark doesn't like this part. because he already told me. Maybe the wording here is not the best choice, but I think you (Mark) reacted badly in the moment on TS and brought up Discord which is not what the discussion was even really about or what was annoying you in the moment that led to it. Both of you were emotional in that moment and - also - in this post afterwards. I don't think focusing on the exact wording of things is going to help, so I hope you won't do that.

I also hope people won't pick this message apart. I'm trying my best in a difficult situation.

Basically I guess both of you are going to have to swallow some pride a bit here. That's my feeling at least. I don't want to take sides and I can't solve this for you. I'm probably not the best person to facilitate either, being honest, but a couple of others who might be good at that (understandably) don't want to get involved. If anyone thinks they could help with this maybe drop me a message? I'm not sure what that even looks like, but people coming to help seems like it can only be a good thing.

But for what it's worth I would say that you both have to accept that you have made mistakes, apologise for it, and apologise to the rest of the guild for dragging people into it. And if your reaction to this is that the other person did more wrong or you already did it or any other "but..." then I think that's the wrong place to start from. There are reasons why it hasn't been resolved, why the above post didn't lead to a solution. Some is my fault. Can we please try this again though? Do you each think you can do this? Could you have a direct conversation with each other, or with a third party who isn't in it for taking sides, explain why you are upset, accept that whatever the other person says is a valid perception of your behaviour, even if you didn't intend it, and then own that, apologise, and make a new start?

And, yes, ultimately we need to figure out Discord and, I hope, get everyone using and chatting on the same one. But maybe one step at a time?

Owning perceptions is hard. I learnt this at work. Long story, I'll tell it some time. It humbled me the fuck up about a lot of things and I'm so grateful to have a manager and friend who taught me that lesson when I was close to quitting. I've been trying to be better at this every day and it actually really improved my life.

I will start, because some of this is on me.

I'm sorry for not doing what I promised to do to Sarah, for not communicating clearly with Mark, and to the rest of the guild for letting this drag on when I was pretty much in the best place to help start the healing.

Finally, just to say, I don't want to fall out with anyone, and we're still very much looking forward to seeing people at our - now delayed  - wedding and sharing that day with you. This year has not been stress free for anyone. If anyone wants to chat directly about this thread, or just say hi, random chat, whatever, feel free to drop me a message. Had a couple of people reach out today which has been nice.

Thanks. I will unlock the thread but please be calm, maybe reply tomorrow (or wait a bit after you read) instead of right now, please other people also be sensible with the thread, and let's see where this goes.

[Nacey]

(Okay, it was a bit of a long post.)